Coaching: Getting results without carrots or sticks with Dave Stitt

EP 011

Dave is a leadership team coach in the construction industry with over 20 years experience of enabling teams to deliver remarkable results in remarkable ways. He's author of deep and deliberate delegation and coach for results, and can often be found in the columns of construction manager magazine to the second book and course of the same name coach for results, is based on a game of changing the construction industry from the bottom up.

In this episode we discussed:

•  Daves Career: from Civil Engineer to Coach
•  Command and Control – an end of an era?
•  Coaching for Results
• The benefits of coaching
•  Seeing the potential in the overwhelmingly dysfunctional
•  Self care strategies for Longevity and peak performance

You can connect with Dave here:

Website: Home - DSA Building Performance Ltd.

Linkedin: (6) Dave Stitt PCC | LinkedIn

For more Information about Dave's course Coach for Results:

Coach for Results - CIOB Academy

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Website: Podcast – Construction Cheer Leader (anneokafor.co.uk)

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Twitter: @DeterminatorPo

Transcript

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Unknown: 0:00

Welcome to the everyday determinator podcast with your host Okafor founder of the determinator collective we want to help you get off that hamster wheel of life and turn you into an everyday the Terminator by sharing stories for Americans who have overcome varying challenges in life and careers and by reviewing and signposting you to helpful resources to start you on the journey to achieving your goals. For more information on the determinator collective, please visit www dot Anne Okafor dot Koto uk. Thanks for listening determinator

Anne Okafor: 0:50

Hello Determinators, and welcome to the everyday determinator Podcast. Today, I'm speaking with Dave Stitt. Dave is a leadership team coach in the construction industry with over 20 years experience of enabling teams to deliver remarkable results in remarkable ways. He's author of deep and deliberate delegation and coach for results, and can often be found in the columns of construction manager magazine to the second book and course of the same name coach for results, is based on a game of changing the construction industry from the bottom up. Hi, Dave, it's great to have you with us today.

Dave Stitt: 1:25

Hi, and it's great to be here. Awesome.

Anne Okafor: 1:28

So Dave, I know, you started your civil engineering background. That's correct, isn't it? And you started at quite a young age, do you want to give us some insight into how your journey into construction started?

Dave Stitt: 1:41

Gosh, right. I left school at 16 with all level art. And I didn't know what I was going to do. But I played a lot of golf. And about a week or so after leaving school, I was playing golf with a guy said to me, what are you doing for your career? And I said, I've got no idea. And he said, Well, how do you fancy being a trainee civil engineer. So he gave me a job as a junior civil engineer. And then about a year later, and I was making the tea and getting the chips and all that kind of stuff as a 16 year old. And then a year later, he said to me, Dave, I'm off back home, down south, you got to get yourself another job. So I found myself in an interview with Taylor would draw. And the guy asked me what I'd been doing for the last year. And I told him, and he said, right, so what are you doing your home life? And I said, I play golf. He says, All right, what's your handicap? So I told him? And he says, All right, well, you've just improve your chances of getting this job by 75%. So I turned up a fortnight later on this huge civil engineering project, report to the senior engineer. And he gave me a theodolite and a level and a huge roll of drawings. And he said, that's your section over there. And I'm just 17. I don't have a clue about anything. And so for the first two weeks, I was chased around the site by a general foreman asking for lines and levels. And I slowly got the hang of it, I made loads of mistakes. And I became kind of brutally determined to succeed. And Tiller would resent me on their release course, which I did quite well on, surprisingly to me. And then they said, When I finished that, they say, What are you going to do next? And I said, Well, I've got no idea. And they said, Well, you should do a degree. And I said, Well, nobody in my family has ever done that before. Now we'll sponsor you. I was the first person to be sponsored by till Woodrow to do a degree. So I got a degree in civil engineering with a massive amount of hard work. And then I became a chartered civil engineer chart builder. So I stayed with Taylor Woodrow for 16 years. And then I was headhunted and I moved to another organisation, burst construction. And they went through the kind of initiated a transformation programme in the mid 90s, which kind of changed my life and I became less interested in bricks and blocks and concrete. And I became quite passionate about people and particularly teams, and how people work together. I was one of a few kind of looking people, I think, who went through the coaching the coaches programme. So this transformation programme was led by two external coaches, who encouraged the organisation to train up some internal coaches so that when they left, they kept the programme going. And I was one of, I think, 10 or so of those people who learned how to be a coach. This is kind of 1996 when coaching was unheard of, in the construction industry. And I moved on from that company, I joined weights, and they found out that in an operational role, they found out I had this coaching and this transformation experience and asked me to leave that transformation programme round about 2000 dish, which was really successful. And it was held up in the industry as an exemplar of, of change in the industry and how the industry could be. So that kind of got me into changing the industry. And after that programme was completed, I just had a hunger to do more of that work. So I left that organisation set up my own organisation that was 20, over 20 years ago, and that's what I've been doing ever since. That's kind of how I got into being a civil engineer, and then then being a coach

Anne Okafor: 5:38

changes to over to coach. Great. So what was behind that hunger? Then, you know, you said you have this hunger to do more than that work? What was maybe driving that? What's the issues with construction that helped you to have that hunger to make things better? Because if you're hungry for something, that's generally to make something better? What was that, behind that little motivation behind that?

Dave Stitt: 6:02

I'm one of these people who rightly or wrongly sees the wheel coming off before the wheel actually comes off. Okay, which is really important in construction, because that's about risk management. Absolutely. And a lot of contracting is about risk management, managing and mitigating risk. And so some of these people who sees kind of sees the dark side things, my wife, Sue sees the upside of things. So we make a great, a great team. So I've been in the construction industry for 45 years. And the people are just amazing. You know, without exception, they come to work to get stuff done to get things built. And they've got so much energy and so much determination and willingness. But I've been because I see the dark side of things. I see how badly the industry is broken, and how dysfunctional it is, even though the people are absolutely amazing. And so that the people in our industry just put up with all kinds of stuff, you know, they fall on their sword regularly for their organisation, they work through all kinds of adversity, terrible weather, terrible relationships, terrible, you know, tension between them, and their suppliers and them and their client, and internally as well. So I see this, and I see the cost it has on people. So I see the cost it has on teams, and I see the cost it has on, you know, projects and clients and and so when I set up my own business, I'd been looking at this dysfunctionality, I guess for about 25 years. And I hadn't noticed it for the first 20 odd years because I was just part of it, and you don't see, when you're so close to something, you don't see it. When I got into these transformation programmes, I was able to step back and see things for how they are, and see where you know, the amount of potential for improvement is just crazy. And you don't have to do much to improve things a lot. And so I'm just looking at all of this potential, I'm looking at all this agony and stress that people go through. And I'm thinking well, come on Dave, do something about it. So when I set up my own business, my, my mission was, and still is to change the construction industry. And it sounds really big and grand and Herculean. But I'm actually doing that tiny little bit by tiny little bit, you know, one leadership team at a time. So yeah, that's that's kind of the hunger, I can see what needs I can see the potential for huge improvement. And I can see the cost to people and projects and customers and reputation and industry and, and the planet.

Anne Okafor: 8:51

Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that probably is becoming a conversation now, certainly much more widely than ever has been, and rightly so. And you're right, you know, the construction industry is full of amazing individuals that do amazing work every day, you know, we're changing the face of the planet in great ways every day. And then you know, some people are working in tenable conditions, and it's definitely a very worthy cause. But how do you go from all this needs fixing to, I need to do something, and then you know, you're putting that into action. So did you go and do any training in your transition to be coachable? You said, You've done this leadership, entire, like some internal programme. Did you do any professional training to become you know, a coach, and what did that look like?

Dave Stitt: 9:37

So in 1996, I had my first basic training over a period of about a year to be an internal coach. And so when I left and set up my own business, I just cracked on doing what I was doing. So that was 2000. Ish. And then 10 years later, 12 years later, I thought, right I've got to a stage, I've got to a level. And it's it's successful, it's successful. For me, it's successful for the teams I'm working with. But I'm also hungry for my own learning and development. So I thought, right, actually, Dave, go back and do a qualification in coaching. So I did a year long was the start of a master's programme in coaching. I did the first year, which was certificate level in 2013, which was great. And that kind of opened up a whole view of what coaching is and what it isn't. And a lot of what I'd been doing previously wasn't coaching, as good as it was as useful as it was sort of 2013 ish started on a journey to become, you know, a better coach. And then, a couple of years ago, I decided to get a professional certification in coaching. And I did that through the international coaching Federation. And I have to say, I have to say that I'm a chartered civil engineer and the maturity builder, but becoming a certified coach, was the biggest challenge of all. So anyway, that's where I am now I'm a professionally certified coach. And I'm on my journey to become a master certified coach, which I guess is the equivalent of being a member of the Institution of Civil Engineers, and then a fellow, the Institution of Civil Engineers, or the Chinese to the building.

Anne Okafor: 11:33

So you mentioned that becoming a coach was one of your biggest challenges. What does that look like? And how are you overcoming? Or how did you overcome that challenge? Was it you know, obviously, hard work to do the qualification, like any qualification, you've got to have some grit and determination to do that, as well as obviously running a business and doing the work that you were doing in that. So tell us a little bit about the challenge and how you overcome that to successfully become qualified?

Dave Stitt: 11:59

Gosh, I've not thought about this in depth on. Okay. But thinking about it now, I think when I was moving towards becoming a chartered civil engineer, I was learning to become a professionally certified coach, I had to unlearn. Okay, a lot of bad habits, like giving advice, making suggestions, telling people what to do that's not coaching. And yet, for, you know, 10 years as a leadership team coach, that's what I'd been doing. And I don't know if you've ever tried to unlearn something that's deeply ingrained. Yep. But it's really hard.

Anne Okafor: 12:40

Yeah. And sometimes often uncomfortable, because it's what you're used to, and it's what you've sat with for so long. And unlearning can be quite a big challenge. So um, that's really interesting that you bring that up, I guess, perhaps, maybe, as well, when you're doing your civil engineering degree, there was maybe mentors in terms of work placement, you know, you were working at the same time. So I guess perhaps you had mentors or line managers that were there for that kind of advice, where I imagine the coaching journey to be almost something quite individual because you're if you're unlearning, it's you're looking at your own behaviours and your own things, you know, that you know, and that you have been ingrained to. And then you're trying to unpick all of that. And that's something that while you can maybe ask for advice, externally, you really need to sit with that yourself, don't you?

Dave Stitt: 13:34

What will you do, and I don't, because I actually believe in coaching. I have a number of coaches myself, and as a professionally certified coach, or to get to become a certified professionally certified coach, you have to have a certain amount of coach mentoring, you have to work with a mentor, coach, okay. And I also have a few supervisors, we get into the difference between supervision and mentor coaching, which I showed go unless you really want to know, but basically a supervisor is there to keep me ethical, and for my safety and security, because you can deal with some really challenging issues in coaching, which if you're not careful, you can take home and it starts to impact your life. So supervision is about ethics, safety and security. And then mentor coaching, it's about sharpening my edge as a coach. So I've had a really good dose of both supervision and coaching and mentor coaching along the way. And really, that's because I believe in in coaching, and if I believe in something, then I would have done you know, I would, I would be a receiver of that as well as a as well as being a coach.

Anne Okafor: 14:56

Yeah, no, that's really interesting, that you do that and that you are on both sides of the fence as it were, I think it's important sometimes in learning our own skills to, to see and be seen sort of thing.

Dave Stitt: 15:09

So it's not just for me, I'm a keen sportsman. And so I've got a swimming coach. Yep. I'm a keen cyclist, I've got a cycling coach. I don't think there's anybody out there any team or any person out there, that's world class that does not have a coach? Well, absolutely. I

Anne Okafor: 15:26

mean, if you look at sports people, you know, they all have coaches, and you know, and it's to get that excellence, isn't it, it's just getting that next level. And to keep them I guess, keep them focused enough to remain at that level of output, consistently. And I think the same can be said for our careers or, you know, like what you're doing with an industry and trying to, you know, take it to another stage of excellence and, and to get that outputs consistently across the board as you need team coaches, our individual coaches, just to help people to take the step, the next step, you know, it's hard to walk journeys that we haven't been on without someone who's maybe been there before us. So

Dave Stitt: 16:08

that's kind of mentoring. But for me, coaching is, the thing about me, us is we can't see ourselves. And so the example that I sometimes give is when I first when I first started working with a swimming coach, so I'm ploughing up and down a lane looking at a black line in a pool. And I can't see me, I can't see me how I'm doing that. Yeah. And so when I first started working with a swimming coach, he said, Right, okay, Dave, just swim a few lengths. So I saw a few lens, he says, are interesting. He said, he said, were about the hands entering the water. And I said, well, obviously there and there. He said, Yeah, he said, Your left hand is definitely entering there. He says, but your right hands entering there. Right. And he said, What? So he didn't tell me what to do. He said, Well, what do you think that's doing to you? And I said, Well, I imagine if my left hands entering there, it's pulling me straight. And it's my right hands entering there. It's pulling me over here. Yeah. And so I might be zigzagging up the pool. He says, Well, you are Dave.

Anne Okafor: 17:14

Yeah. And then expending more energy unnecessarily, presumably, to

Dave Stitt: 17:19

Absolutely. Particularly when you get into a lake, and there's no black line on the bottom? And my first response was, Well, no, that can't be right. I've been doing for years. But my right hand must be entering there. Yeah, it's not it's entering there consistently. And so, you know, I went from swimming a length in about 2627 strokes to swimming a length in around about 17 or 18 strokes. That difference? If you're more applied over, you know, a mile or six miles. It's a huge difference. Absolutely. So it's like self awareness. You know, coaching is about raising self awareness, because we can't see ourselves. Yeah. It's about raising self awareness, and then raising responsibility. Okay, so now that you know, Dave, your hand is entering there, what are you going to do about it?

Anne Okafor: 18:08

Yeah, let's put that back on. You really isn't. It's giving you space to understand what you need to do and take responsibility for that, as you said, and to make it happen. We'll take action that comes from you and what you think.

Dave Stitt: 18:21

Yeah. So he refused to tell me what to do about it. He said, Well, what are you going to do about it, Dave? And I thought, well, if my left hand is entering in the right place, I might just hold that there a bit longer, and make sure my right hand touches my left hand before. And so I you know, I did that for months and months and months just to correct myself, correct that the floor and my technique.

Anne Okafor: 18:44

Yeah. It's a process of unlearning isn't like you know, you've got to unlearn what you're so used to and what you're comfortable with. It feels really uncomfortable. Absolutely.

Dave Stitt: 18:56

Nothing over there just feels sore. It feels so right, because I've done it for so long.

Anne Okafor: 19:01

And I'm sure now that you've been doing the right way for so long, or the way that works is comfortable now or at least more comfortable than it was the first day you tried it?

Dave Stitt: 19:13

Well, you know, you know, yes, definitely. But swimming is an incredibly technical sport. And you're doing this in an infinitely immobile medium, you know, water. It provides you some buoyancy, but it doesn't provide you much lateral support. And so it's for me, it's a never ending journey, you know, learning really, really, really good technique, and being able to swim long distances gracefully using as minimum amount of energy. It doesn't happen overnight. So I've got a swimming coach now for at least 10 years.

Anne Okafor: 19:47

Yeah, just keep at it. Yeah, I think that's what anything if you want to be better at something you do need to keep up it isn't just an overnight success. It's not you don't get caught and then tomorrow you'll be fixed. You know, I mean, it's is a work in progress. And then as you become better at one thing, then you know you work on something else or you know, so maybe once you started to collect your your arm placement, maybe it's your speed that you want to then increase, which will obviously naturally increase because you've minimised the energy you're using and the strokes that you're using. But once you get into that sort of space, you want to do better on something else. And like we do with our careers, once we get to one level, we then want to move on to the next task or the next challenge and take another step towards something great. And again, and I think it's that continual process and why learning and you know, continued professional development is so important as we go along, because there's always something extra that we can be learning if we desire to make that difference ourselves. So in terms of user, talking to leadership teams, you know, that's something, you know, talking about continual professional development, even the top of teams, the top of the industry, have learning to do still on some things, you know, there's nobody that can really get away with that, you know, we can all learn something new. And I know you talk to leadership teams, as part of your offering, and from your business, directly give us an overview, what does that look like? What sort of things would you be talking to them around.

Dave Stitt: 21:23

So when a client decides to build something, whether it's a road or a new office blog, or whatever, they usually get themselves a cost consultant and a concept architect. And then they tend to procure a main contractor, and that main contractor procures 100 subcontractors. And what normally happens is all just thrown together, and they get on with it. And that's a big part of the dysfunctionality I talk about, because they're all working on the project. And none of them are working on the team on the relationships. So what I do is I get the top six or seven people who are making the big decisions on the project. And it might be three people from the contract or two people from the clients team, couple of people from the design team. And they're kind of formed the leadership team, they're the six or seven people who are making the big decisions on the project. And they may not realise it, but they're the ones who are kind of responsible for creating the environment where people can come and do their best work. Now, they're leaders. And leadership is about creating the culture and the environment that enables people to come and do their best work. And so what I do is I get them to come together as a group of six or seven, and, you know, get to know each other and get a sense of what their common drivers are, what their common ambitions are, what their common challenges are, and then to work out what they're going to do about all of that. So they then provide consistent decisions for the project, they then provide consistent messages for the project. And then they start thinking about, you know, the leadership function, how do we create this place where people can come and do their best work. And so I kind of changed their agenda slightly from, you know, delivering project, which is really important, and consumes a lot of their time, I change that agenda, even if it's just for one day out of three months to write, let's think about the environment, the culture here, let's think about how people come to work and the challenges that they have to overcome. And what can you people do as leaders to create that, that environment where people can succeed? Because if if the 1000 people working on your project can succeed, then it's going to make your chances of delivering the project so much, so much better. So it's kind of there's a Norwegian saying that the fish rots from the head. Hmm, yeah. And if the head of the project is rotten, then the rest of its gonna be rotten pretty quickly. Yeah, who's me. And if the head of the project is in good shape, then the rest of its got a chance of being in good shape. So my work is about getting those six or seven people to really pull together to really get clear on their purpose, as a leadership team to really get clear on what it is they're trying to do and why. Yeah. And then how do we create a special place round here, where people can just be the most productive people together? Yeah. And when that happens, like magic happens. Yeah, no, absolutely.

Anne Okafor: 24:59

I I think it's really important. And we talk a lot about the environment and the, you know, the culture of a workplace or the project. And this instance, is super important to make sure that people have got an environment to come to work and do their best. Because quite often, we, like you said, you'd notice before that people are working in all sorts of different conditions with bad relationships, at work and poor conditions, and, you know, putting in so much energy, but actually, because of the these issues, their productivity outputs are not going to be the same. Because you can't, when you've got all these barriers, in your way, be the best that you could possibly be. So I think it's a really good thing to be talking to. And it's really good to know that that's happening in the industry, you know, because we do get a bad, a bad rep, sometimes for quite a lot of the time in the construction, well in the world. And people look at it construction as quite a bad industry. And we are in a lot of ways for the reasons you mentioned earlier. But we are doing so many wonderful things as well. And to know that these conversations are happening is one of those good things, you know, people are realising that there's problems and how can we culture an environment where people can come and be their best. And I know you talk about quite a lot about these sorts of things as well, in the articles that you write in, I think, quite often phone and construction manager magazine, I think you have a regular articles in there. And you quite often touch upon these. So I'd really recommend people to check in to those another Dave has them on his social media and things as well. So if you're looking for more information on those types of things, definitely have a look at the articles. And obviously the books as well, that digital, we've talked about from the head down. And the opposite of that is the bottom up. And I know part of your purpose with coach for results, which is your course and your boot of the same name is to work from the bottom up and look at people who are maybe new into industry, new leaders, young professionals, new professionals coming in, let us know a little bit about that I understand the courses and it's on the Chartered Institute of Building Academy websites and some of our collaboration with them as well. And it's good to realise that they have recognised the need for the sort of conversations as well. I've obviously been a delegate of the said course, and champion greatly and really recommend as well, if you're new to the industry that you do, check out the course on the CIRB Academy website, animals just ask Dave to give us a little overview of that course at some of the things that he's talking about within.

Dave Stitt: 27:43

Hmm. So um, for 20 years, I've been working top down with big project leadership teams changing the construction industry, tiny little bit by tiny, little bit. And so a couple of years ago, I looked at myself, and I thought, yeah, I'm doing okay. But in terms of changing the industry, I've got about another 900 years worth of work. Yes. That much. But then I thought, Wow, 900 years, well, how about that for a forward order book for a course. And so I look at the industry, and you know, 45 years, the last 20 years, almost looking at it from the outside looking in. And the default conversation in construction is command and control. No people tell people what to do all the time. And if I'm your boss, as soon as I tell you what to do, you can't help it, you stop thinking. Absolutely. And you're waiting for orders. So there's a lot of people sitting around waiting for orders out there right now. And the number of execs I've worked with in the last 20 years who have kind of said to me out of sheer frustration, Dave, why do I have to do all the thinking around here? Well, the reason why you have to do all the thing around you as you're telling people what to do. And they're not thinking for themselves. They're just waiting for you to tell them what to do. And so that's the default approach. You know, that's the culture. And construction happens to be the culture in most other industries as well. Yeah. And so I'm looking at myself thinking, right, 900 years worth of work, if I continue doing it like this? Well, how about doing it differently? How about working from the bottom up, but how can i What can I do there? Well, I've got this coaching skill that I've been practising for, you know, 20 odd years. How about I train 1000s and 1000s of young construction professionals into a different sort of conversation into a coaching style conversation into a coaching style of management, instead of command and control. So that so these young professionals become better at the job they're doing right now, right now, over time to become more effective leaders, and then ultimately become great leaders. If I could do that at scale, and over time, 1000s and 10s housing, that's going to change the construction industry from the ground up and make it a better place. Yeah, absolutely. So that young construction professionals are now asking people questions, listening to them, and enabling them to think for themselves and work it out for themselves, rather than just telling them what to do all the time. And so if we can, if we can kind of spread that sort of approach, then that's going to change the industry. And so I've kind of made a course, really simple course, which just teaches the essentials of a coaching style of management. And as you said earlier, that's now being delivered on the Chartered Institute of buildings Academy platform. And the really interesting thing on is it's not just for young people. So right now, right now, at this moment in time, there's a 60 year old leader, going through this programme. In the first cohort, there was a 55 year old guy went through the programme. So so it's also for current managers and current leaders who want to re chip their approach, who want to adjust their style, because it's gotten this far. But they're now realising it's not going to get them to where they want to get to, or it's just not very effective. You're telling people what to do all the time, and they're carrying the whole burden. You know, they're having to do all the things around here, which is massively stressful?

Anne Okafor: 31:27

Absolutely, I think it's good back to what you said about leaders creating the environment for people to come and do their best work. And if you're creating an environment where people don't have to think they just let you say, automatically switch off, we don't then think for ourselves, we just wait on the artists, you know what? Well, he never told us what to do today. So we'll just well, what are we supposed to do? We don't know. Because we've forgotten how to think for ourselves. And I think it's really important, and it's really great to hear them older industry. Professionals are realising the need for that as well. I think a lot of Yeah, certainly a lot of young professionals and new professionals even there, maybe not necessarily young, but new professionals are not really accepting of that command and control kind of attitude anymore. Whether people were more accepting, I'm not sure. But it was probably more than just the dumb thing. And the way we did things around here, but I think certainly no young people are asking more questions they want to be involved in, you know, things, like we said, at the start of this the environment, you know, making things better for the world and the people and the industries that we work in. And people aren't just so willing to be controlled and commanded, and we want to be part of the conversation. And I think this is a really, really important thing for the construction industry. And something that I'm really pleased to have been part of the star off. And I can't wait to it, you know, see how it changes people and certainly has had an impact on me. And I certainly think about things in different ways haven't been on the course, and no other delegates have also been in that space. So it's really, really exciting to see that even just like you see these small changes started, but the ripple effects that will come from that, and the people that we as delegates then come into contact with. And they're the sort of ripple effect that that has long from now.

Dave Stitt: 33:20

So I'm what you're seeing is fantastic. It's kind of great reinforcement for the mission that I'm on. And it's kind of really good anecdotal evidence. But you don't need anecdotal evidence here. You know, Harvard, has been researching this for quite a long time now. And you know, they've got a body of research, which proves that millennials want to be coached. They don't want to be told they want to be coached. And Millennials also want to coach people around them. So the evidence is there. But the trouble is, that their bosses don't know how to coach them. And they don't know how to coach either. So someone's got to start teaching these people. And also, you know, there's huge evidence, you know, for instance, Gallup, the analytics giant, yeah, they've been researching staff engagement, you know, workforce engagement across the world for 30 years. And their recent report reinforces their previous reports and the previous reports, that around about 15%, globally, 15% of the workforce is engaged, unifies 85%, aren't shocked. So if you're telling people what to do, commanding them and controlling them, they are disengaged, no, they're turning up. They're going through the motions, they're drawing their check. So there's a better way, you know, not just for the construction industry, for the world. Absolutely. There's a better way to function. And this is just my approach. This is just my you know, contribution, my little solution You'll get people to use a coaching style of management, where they ask questions where they listen, and where they enable the other person to work things out for themselves. But if you get the world working things out for themselves, they're engaged, you'll get get your people working things out for themselves, they're engaged. And when people are engaged, you know, there's enthusiasm, there's passion, there's determination, they get things done, you don't have to push them and chase them and dangle carrots and hit them with sticks. Absolutely.

Anne Okafor: 35:32

Well, that's our default isn't. What I love about your mission, though, is, you know, when you spoke about all the challenges that you've spoke about, when you've come across it is, so you started to see the dark side, you see the the problems, and, you know, you listed them and it's a colossal list, you know, of all the things that can go wrong, and that we do wrong. A lot of people will be overwhelmed by these things, you know, and you said, you know, when you start talking about leadership teams, you see that it was 900 years of work, you know, it's a big, a lot of work to do, lots and lots to do, again, people could be overwhelmed with that. Talking about changing the direction of things from, for the young and new professionals coming in to coaching leadership style, that's a colossal task as well. Talking about 85% of people being disengaged is a colossal task, if you think about 85% of the construction industry being disengaged, all these tasks that you have tried to tackle and are tackling, and your contributions through these courses. And through these conversations are colossal, and then a lot of people would have said, Oh, that's just too tough, too big a thing, I'll leave that for someone else to deal with. Because that's generally what some people don't like, but not Dave, them, they've come up with some solutions, to start breaking it down and start working towards it. And I think that's really a testament to your kind of determination as well. And, you know, you've shown that through your career, you've had lots of little challenges along the way. And what's the big challenge, as I'm sure as well. And rather than sort of stepping away from it, you've stepped into it, you were your legacy as a 17 year old, thrown onto the big construction site and didn't really know much, you've just stepped into it and went with it. And you know, to get your degree in your professional qualifications. And these are no mean feats for anyone takes a lot of hard work, and a lot of determination to do that. So what's your motivation behind all this, you know, to, to get stuck in and to transitions?

Dave Stitt: 37:35

More mindset than motivation? Okay. So you mentioned huge challenges, you know, 85% of the world's workforce, disengaged, you know, a dysfunctional construction industry, proven to be for 50 or 60 years government report, after government report after government reporting that the construction industry has got to get its act together. And so it couldn't be colossal, it could be overwhelming. But then on the other hand, I just think, well, look at the potential, you know, we're already this good. Yeah. You know, look at the things we've built, you know, look at the world we've created, you know, the, the best parts of it. And, you know, we've done that with 85% of the workforce disengaged, so rather than look at it, overwhelmingly, feel overwhelmed by it. I just looked at the potential I just think, Whoa, you know, if 85% of the world's workforce is disengaged, and we've already done this, well, what could we do? Just what could we do if we get, you know, 40% of the world's workforce engaged, and a lot of the challenges that we're facing now, you know, planetary challenges with in terms of our potential effectiveness, you know, we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more for an offer for Dave, for the teams or work with for humanity for this planet than we've, we've seen so far. It's about, you know, coming together and creating, you know, a great place for people to work, where they can do their best work. Excellent,

Anne Okafor: 39:13

I think, ability to see potential, and the ability to maybe see the barriers that maybe other people aren't able to see Lisa said, with an analogy with your swimming. Because we're in the pool. With construction, we can't see that our hands over here. Whereas you as our coach can help us to see that and become a bit more efficient in what we do. And I think that is for me, the essence of the role of the coach, I guess, is that ability to see the potential and to help us realise our barriers because we all have them. We don't always see what they are. And I know that from my own personal experience and having had sessions with you as well that there's been things blocking me and I've not really known I've known something was Welcome in not making me as effective, I know that we all know that. But sometimes we're so like head down in the pool that we just don't know, what

Dave Stitt: 40:10

I've just come up with is just so extending the metaphor. There we in the construction a bit we managers, project managers and what have you, they're in the pool, they're looking downwards, and all they can see is a black line. And the black line is the programme. Yeah, and so the only thing that matters is the black line, and going as fast as we possibly can. The programme is king. And there's so many other things that need to be attended to the, you know, most of the senior senior project professionals out there now, you know, they're just looking at the programme, that you know, that they're facing the project, what I'm trying to do is to get them to turn round and face their people. Because if they can, if we can start facing their people and create the environment and encourage people in more than an inspire people, then the project is going to get built. But just looking down at the bottom of the pool at the programme is, is limiting potential, you know, for you as a, as a project manager, but also for your people as well. Yeah,

Anne Okafor: 41:16

I love that. And I think it's really, it almost makes me think of like, an orchestra, where, you know, you could look at the crowd that you're supposed to be delivering to your programme your project, that's what you're delivering, but you have to turn to your people and, you know, make them play the right tune, I guess. And it really makes me think of that, when you say, you know, you've got to look at your people. And I think, you know, that's the orchestra master, he's got to eat or cue people and get them to perform at the right time and do the right, you know, the right musical instruments at the right time. And, and that's kind of akin to the project, you know, getting the subcontractor on the right day doing the right task with the right materials, and you've got to orchestrate all that. And then you can't do that, if you're not really looking at it. You can't do that, if you've not got an eye on what's happening to you there. And everywhere, you've got to be focused on that. Rather than looking out to the crowd and telling them, it's going to be fine, the guys are going to play a tune in, that's going to work and we've got the programme, we've told you, you're going to get, you know, whatever tune you're going to get, and I'll be fine. So I'll just have a look at you. And they'll all get on with what they're doing. It will work, you know, as this orchestra masters looking out to the front, it's not probably going to happen the same way, you'll probably get something but it won't be as tidy. It won't be as efficient as as what you'd get a few biscuity people in the right way. Excellent. So I know him in terms of you know, you've got a big task ahead him and you are doing this same excellent work with your coaching programmes. And you mentioned swimming, I know you're a keen cyclist as well. How important is that sort of self care routine to you? When you're not busy coaching? busy professionals?

Dave Stitt: 42:57

Well, it's a way of life. Yeah, you know, I cycle indoors mostly now. But when I used to cycle outdoors on the roads, there would be a terrible winter's day raining and blowing a gale. And as I'd be walking out the door, my wife would say, enjoy your cycle, Dave? And I said, No, I don't enjoy it. It's just something I do. Yeah, something I've always done. And I always will, you know, for as long as I can. So that's kind of, it's kind of a way of life for me, but I have a purpose to it. So I want to start, when I was approaching 50, I read a book, which said, the first person to live to the to 150 years old, is now approaching 50. And I thought, well, that's me. So my kind of purpose, as far as my exercise is concerned is just as longevity is to build a function until I'm 150. Because I've got a lot of work to do 100 years, in fact, and I'm only just setting out I'm on the bottom rung of my career ladder, there's more in front of me than there is behind. So if I'm going to make, you know, all of that happen, if I'm going to keep going, then I've got to be fit. And it's like, you know, we're all connected as well, you know, our mind and our body. And a lot of what I do is thinking and so if the thinking bits going to be healthy, the body bits got to be healthy as well. And also, it's, it's a great way to to manage stress. You know, I just get on my bike, and I blow it all out. Yeah. And I feel much better after it. And so, you know, we're talking about the determinator podcast here. And one of the things that I've realised, you know, a lot of what I've done is through force of will and determination. But also over the years, I've developed a lot of coping strategies and a lot of smarts. So now it is it's for me, I've got a mixture of this strong determination and will But I've also got some great strategies, you know, things that I do daily, that keep me going and you know, with energy and passion and enthusiasm in the right direction. And exercises is one of those things. Yeah. Strategies,

Anne Okafor: 45:14

I think it's good to have those strategies and know what what works for you. Obviously, you've identified cycling as your thing and swimming as well, maybe, as part of those strategies for keeping peak performance. Your peak performance isn't all about just the outputs of the exercise, it's about keeping the mind healthier, which is to say it was my time for taking my mind from being centre stage for the body's get an attorney so that the mind can have a time to switch off a little bit. And I think it's really important that we all find time and space to do that, especially when we're taking on challenges in our work in our careers and trying to bet on ourselves or the industries that we work in. And it's really important to find strategies and find what works for you find your site plan or your swimming, or whatever it may be. We all have different things that allow us the space to, to breathe, and to, to just switch the mind off a little bit. So it's really

Dave Stitt: 46:08

important, John, on when I was a highly stressed and burned out manager, probably about 30 to 33. I caught myself one day, on the motorway, because I used to do a lot of miles, you know, moving from site to site. I caught myself one day doing about 90 miles an hour in the outside lane. And I thought, well, this is not good, Dave, this is not good. Let's slow down. So I actually, I don't know why I did it. But I moved right over to the slow lane and slowed down about 65. And I thought, Oh, this is lovely. Look at all those sad swords flying. I managed to keep it up for about five minutes. And then I was off again in the outside lane. And as I was driving back, I thought, This is my life. My life is like a three lane motorway. The outside lane is my business life. Yeah, I'm 90 miles an hour all the time fueled on adrenaline going fast. The middle lane is my family life, which I love as well. And the inside lane is time for myself. Yeah. And unless I keep all those three lanes clear, you get a contra floor, and it slows the other two lanes down. Yeah, and sometimes you get a crash. And there's only one lane and it's gone really slow. And so for me, that's kind of my metaphor for getting the balance right? Enough time for me enough time for my family, and enough time for my business, my work. And just slow down every now and again, instead of 90 miles an hour where it's not safe. Get over here, where it's 60. And it is safe. And it's quite nice to see all the idiots flying past.

Anne Okafor: 48:00

My balance are, you know, harmony, I prefer the term harmony, I don't think we should necessarily I don't like balance because it means that one suffers at the hands of the other. Sometimes when I see balance, I see skills. And that means if one score, not the other one's going down. And I don't like that I prefer harmony, harmony, and where they you know, we work together our family life, our home life, our own life, our work life and all work. So sometimes you might have to go, you might have to push the limit away, but on the work life, but it's not that forever, forever going all the time. You know, there's a time to work harder when you're maybe working towards a goal. But you don't want to be there all the time, like you said in the motorway because eventually there'll be a crash and then nothing's really happening. Nothing's moving. So I love that analogy. Yeah. And so on.

Dave Stitt: 48:47

It's on. It's when I get those three streams in harmony. Yep. They're integrated. Yeah. And I am in integrity. Your whole complete?

Anne Okafor: 48:59

Absolutely. Everything's moving. Everything's kind of working as it should be, I guess. And you know, you feel happier. Because everything's kind of moving at the pace that it needs to be. And there's no crashes, there's no lanes closed. You know, one's not working another one's not. Yeah. So it's a really good analogy. And then thank you for sharing that with us. So just to sort of finish up there. What would you say? Would you be your top three tips if someone was looking to work with a butcher, either an individual or business, what sort of things what would be your top three tips for someone who is looking to find a coach to work with? Well,

Dave Stitt: 49:36

I would say find a professionally certified coach, a credentialed coach with one of the institution's if you had something wrong with your arm, you wouldn't go to an unqualified doctor. Yeah. I mean, I'm a member of a of a thing called a trusted coach directory. Okay, if you're looking for a coach, you know, go go to the trusted coach directory. They're all qualified. They're all competent. They've all got 10 testimonials. So, and then once you've found a few, just check them out, you know, have have what's called a chemistry session. See if you like this person, see if you can get on with this person. And then thirdly, I would say, you know, once you've got a coach, then you know, keep going with coaching. And you know, even if you get to the point where right job done with that particular coach, there's always something else to work to, there's always a there's always a goal that you want to get to. So, you know, get coaching.

Anne Okafor: 50:33

Awesome. Well, thank you for that insight. And where can our listeners find you online or on social media, if they would like to know more about you or your programmes or the articles you write? Well,

Dave Stitt: 50:46

I guess everybody, the first place people go to source me out now is my LinkedIn profile. And then my website is DSA building.co.uk. Okay, but LinkedIn is where people go and source me out.

Anne Okafor: 51:05

Well, we'll include the links in the show notes anyway, so that people can find your websites. And then we'll also put the link to the course on the CIRB Academy so that people can check out the course and keep up to whenever your next damn intake is because I know you do the programme and into intake dates so they can have a look there to see when your next intake will be. So thank you so much, Dave, for joining us today and giving us those wonderful insights into your world in the world of coaching for the construction industry. We'd really appreciate your time and insights you've given us today. Your remarkable Thank you.

Dave Stitt: 51:44

Fantastic, thank you. I really enjoyed it. And I've learned a lot there as well.

Anne Okafor: 51:49

Me too. So listeners whether you're bouncing back from a challenge or storming forward to the next one to determine our collective is here for you. Stay remarkable the terminators.

Unknown: 52:00

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